You all know I’m in advertising. And I have written more than one post on why this job is frustrating, no one understands us and the reasons some agencies win awards and some don’t. I have even debated what creativity is and if that is what is required to sell a product or if it’s a creative business solution – offering something of solid value and offering it in a manner that helps people understand. Or do we make them think? Whatever it is, I have never doubted that I work in one of the most frustrating industries around. So after almost ten years, why have I not left?
After a very frustrating meeting earlier today we were all having a dejected chat as to whether we should retire and do something else. Wedding planning maybe? Run a brothel? But in the midst of it, I think I found the reason why. Even if we sell good ideas or not, whether they are published or not, what matters to me is my personal moment of truth. As an industry I guess the moment of truth would be when a piece of work meets its objective. For me, the moment of truth is when a spark of an idea hits me. Something I know makes creative and strategic sense. That moment when you know you’re onto something brilliant. My ability to do that (however rarely those instances maybe) affirms why I am still here. It affirms that I have the ability to think laterally and think it in a communications sense. It tells me I can talk to 18 million people and talk to them good.
This post is just for me I guess. A reminder when I have bad days that there are reasons that I haven’t left. Reasons’s that make the bad days worthwhile. I am damn good at what I do… somedays. I’d love to be brilliant everyday but that’s not possible. But the simple fact that I can be damn good is a damn good reason to stay. Its a high that I’m not sure I’ll get anywhere else.
I have theatre, human rights, animal rights, music, blogging and what have you flowing through my veins, but my veins are made of advertising. Its a superficial industry that essentially sells soap. But it is also an industry that gives everyone who works in it the power of persuasion. I can convince people to do things I want them to do. I can make people feel things I want them to. I can make them sigh and cry and buy. Now tell me how many of you can get people to do those things for you in real life? I guess I’m an ad-woman through and through eh?
You and me both… although brilliance is still a good mountain of steps away from me. 🙂
If you don’t care if you sell a good idea or if it never gets published, you’re not doing your job, and if I was your boss I’d fire you.
If your “personal moment of truth” is the be-all for you, perhaps you should actually become a wedding planner. Advertising’s about selling, and if you can’t sell, you’re tits on a bull.
“One of the most frustrating industries”??? What are you talking about? It’s one of the most brilliant, creative exciting jobs you can be paid good money to do. It’s just that the industry’s crewed by frustrated people; often frustrated ‘cos they are doing a job they are not suited for, or because they don’t understand what advertising’s really about. So it frustrates them. ANY job that requires creativity is frustrating, because creativity itself is a frustrating process, simply because it’s uncharted territory. If you’re frustrated, it’s ‘cos you’re doing it wrong, so look for a way to do it right.
“I guess I’m an ad-woman through and through eh?”
Let’s not be hasty. 🙂
DQ – brilliance in my own eyes that it, not of those others around me. He he.
David – you maybe right, but selling is something that is not part of my job description anymore. I help to sell, but the onus is not completely on me anymore. I took a huge pay drop to do just what I do and that is to be creative. Which I know for a fact I am damn good at. So no, I was not being hasty 😉
Also, that fact that we have different opinions doen’t give one a trump over the other. They’re both valid and varied I guess.
Well if you think creatives are not there to sell, or that advertising isn’t about selling, I’m afraid I must ask you what you’ve been doing as a ‘creative’ person for the last two or three years.
YOU are the one selling the product and YOU are the one selling the ad to the client as a creative person. Servicing is there to carry the artworks, park the car, aand write the contact reports after creatives have sold the ad.
Any idiot can create an ad that no one can sell and no client will buy (hell, I see it every day). So if you feel selling is not your job, you’ve not been trained very well, and therefore I’m not surprised you’re frustrated. Successful creatives can sell. The rest just whine about stupid clients and how no one understands them. Fuck it, woman, if they’re all so stupid and you’re so “damn good”, what’s the problem? You should be running circles around them! 🙂
I don’t blame you for having such a poor opinion of servicing considering that most of them do exactly that. But I don’t agree with you that that’s all their job is about. I was in servicing for many years and I was never the kind of creative you’re talking about. I sold.
And my post weren’t about the problems, they were about the reason’s I love being here. So I don’t see what you’re on about 😉
” I was never the kind of creative you’re talking about. I sold.”
Well, just a couple of posts ago, said that “selling is something that is not part of my job description anymore”. I’m afraid that’s why you exist in creatives — to sell your client’s product by first selling your ad to the client. Advertising is about selling first and foremost, so if you think selling is not your job, you’re in the wrong job. So I wouldn’t call you an adwoman (if such a thing exists, and I hope it doesn’t).
“And my post weren’t about the problems, they were about the reason’s I love being here. So I don’t see what you’re on about”
Yes, I kinda figured don’t see a lot of things about advertising, but MY point was that the things that keep you in advertising can be achieved as a wedding planner or brothel owner, minus the frustrations you keep moaning on about every other month.
Hi Missingsandwich! I just spoke with my Mom and she asked me why are you in Barrow? when I whined about it being cold here. (It is cold -1C) so I told her because I love what I do! Before I could finish, she said every love comes with a price and you have to pay for it. (Then of course she told me she priority shipped my parka that I did not bring and she knew already it was cold). I do not know anything about advertising. But I managed to sell two thesis to two different commissions / panels which gave me academic degrees and all the grants I wanted without a fuss. So I guess I can sell. But before this get too long, I want to say is I love good ads. I think by reading you and David it takes many different people from different walks of advertising to get the job done. We all love what we do I guess.
[…] Posted in Uncategorized Through snow, sleet and fog I saw Java Jones’ gift, Two old travel movies about Ceylon. There was a dance called Yakasha dance and man I laughed my guts out. They are not different from some of those dancers in Jamaica. That certainly warmed me up eventhough it is -1C outside. I told that (the temerature) to Missing Sandwich after reading why she loves what she does. […]
David – Sorry I meant to say not the kind of “servicing” you were talking about, not creative.
Anyways, nevermind, this argument is getting nowhere simply because we have 2 different opinions. And I certainly don’t agree that I can get what I can get about advertising anywhere else. Trust me, I’ve tried.
Also, the reference to “ad-woman” came from the founder of the companies you and I both work for, not that I would dare to compare myself to him.
Off to Unawatuna. Over and out. Have a good weekend all!
Yes, but David Ogilvy also had just two layouts. Layout 1 — pic on top, headline, body, logo. He used that for ten years, then discovered Layout 2 — pic on the left, headline on the right, body, logo. Then he retired. Times change, and you can’t live in an ad world the way he did.
Our local boss has a good story about Edward Heath who was also an accomplished classical and jazz pianist. When asked how he resolved the fantasy of music with the reality of government, he said that music was in fact reality and government a fantasy. If you remember that, you’ll be a lot less frustrated.
But just for the record — are you seriously telling me you don’t think creatives and advertising are not about selling?
Sorry that should read “are you seriously telling me you don’t think creatives and advertising are about selling?”
Ahh…now you’ve disappointed me. Just when I was thinking your blog was one of the best things around.
As far as I am concerned the advertising industry is the most self indulgent, hyped up, overrated industry going. You spend hours and hours working late in meetings, getting “stressed” and overworked, trying to come up with straplines that ultimately are not the reason why we the consumers decide on a certain product over the other. You spend days and huge amounts of money looking for the ideal location but when the ad does come out we cant tell the difference – if the string of lights behind the model pouting on the balcony, are of Mumbai or of Colombo. You pat yourselves on the back, give yourselves awards at ridiculous glitzy events which end up as rather tawdry evenings…….I could go on.
Take your creativity elsewhere.
There are many worthwhile industries/organisations which need people like you. Places that are making a contribution to this planet not just indulging their egos.
Epicurean, my point exactly. You’ve described bad advertising, and bad advertising’s frustrating. One of the main reasons why our advertising’s bad is cos there are too many unsuitable people in the industry — people who’d be better off as brothel owners and wedding planners. It’s not that SL advertising has too much creativity — it hasn’t any strategy. Too many people think this is an art or drama competition, not a marketing form.
I know your comment was probably meant as a dig at me, but it didn’t quite get there because on this one I agree with you completely. Just to re-iterate because you still don’t seem to have got the point of a personal vent on a blog after a bad day, I never said advertising was not about selling, I said my personal job function doesn’t require me to have to sell a piece of creative to a client. Obviously advertising is about selling David! Every job we do needs to sell something, if not a product then a service or a way of life or what have you. My issue was that what we as an industry know will sell and what a Client thinks will sell are sometimes 2 different things. The lack of meeting of minds is what is frustrating. Not the industry. Not the actual creation of work.
“I said my personal job function doesn’t require me to have to sell a piece of creative to a client. ”
Oh it does. You are responsible for selling creatives to the client. You. Not servicing. If a client doesn’t buy an ad it’s YOUR responsibility, not servicing. Have you ever seen servicing present creative work at a pitch? Why do you think that is? Every single important piece of creative MUST be sold to the client by the creatives. Running off a visual, saying “hey go sell this, AE” and going off for a spliff doesn’t work.
Perhaps the reason there is no meeting of minds is because you’re not selling your stuff to the client, and so you don’t understand him or his business.
“My issue was that what we as an industry know will sell and what a Client thinks will sell are sometimes 2 different things.”
That’s because KNOWING what will sell is as useful as a dick on the pope. You need to DEMONSTRATE it to the client. And if you aren’t even selling him your ads, how can he trust you to sell his product?
Are you telling me that you’ve sold EVERYTHING because you presented it? Come on David, there’s no such thing. And I also never said that I didn’t sell. I said that I wasn’t required to. That’s a point we don’t agree on and lets just agree to disagree there.
I make it a point to sell because I know how to by being a servicing person that sold. Which you can ask any creative person I worked with and whose work I sold. Which is why I don’t agree with you that they aren’t supposed to sell. Its their primary job function, not just to park the car and write the service report.
If its about being in touch with the Client and knowing where they are coming, I do that. Both as a creative and a servicing person. Some jobs sell, some don’t. Unless you can tell me otherwise in your case, your whole argument goes to pot.
If I may butt in at this late stage I’d like to know what David has got against wedding planners. I’ve seen films about these guys and I think it looks like a tough job.
… and here I am thinking of getting into Advertising. Whoa! Interesting stuff!
DB + TMS – U 2 need to get in a ring and thrash this one out I think! Coz quite frankly this argument… sorry i mean discussion… isn’t going to end anytime soon. I think you both should concede than neither is going to agree with the others point of view on advertising. So why bother with this??
“Are you telling me that you’ve sold EVERYTHING because you presented it? ”
No, I’m not. Many ads I’ve tried selling have been shot down. But if an ad is important to me and I want it sold, I sell it (or attempt to) and don’t leave it to the AE. Why? Because creatives sell ads waaaaay better than servicing ever can. It’s the reason a CD presents creatives at a pitch. Cos it’s important and can’t be trusted to servicing. It’s the reason creatives conduct training programmes for servicing on how to sell ads, and not vice versa.
“Which is why I don’t agree with you that they aren’t supposed to sell.
I didn’t say they’re not supposed to, I said they can’t be trusted to. If you are trusting your servicing to sell the important stuff, I’m not at all surprised you’re so frustrated. What’s the hit rate?
“Its their primary job function”
No it ISN’T, for god’s sake. Servicing is about servicing the client — liaison, in other words. Coordination, glue, etc.
My point, if you haven’t got it yet, is that a creative person’s job isn’t just to create the ad, but create the ad AND sell it to the client.
“Unless you can tell me otherwise in your case, your whole argument goes to pot.”
I have been telling you this for days now — it is YOUR job to sell. You can agree to disagree or you can start selling your work and doing your job. Or perhaps you prefer frustration and masochism.
RD — nothing against either wedding planners or (before you ask) brothel owners.
where are you? 😦
“the creatives sell ads waaaaay better than servicing ever can”
You’ve obviously been working with some pretty bad servicing people. Trust me there are better ones out there. If you can’t even trust the servicing people to sell an ad, you certainly are working with the worst out there.
Besides David, you’re taking my comments completely out of context just to make your point and then go on a tangent about what you think I should do. Don’t you at least have the maturity to undertand that not everyone in this industry works the way you do and that you may not be the authority on what is right and what isn’t? Your way works for you, mine for me. This is after all a very diverse industry that constantly ventures into the unchartered everyday as you said yourself. Nuff said.
St. Fallen – so sorry, been busy over the past few days. Shall be back next week. BTW, we have some mutual friends.
So just as a casual observer in this rather interesting discussion / argument / debate / fight / big hissy fit that might go on forever, I’d like to point out something.
TMS – you say to David
“Don’t you at least have the maturity to undertand that not everyone in this industry works the way you do and that you may not be the authority on what is right and what isn’t? Your way works for you, mine for me.”
Well is it not the case that your way doesn’t work for you? Your original post was a rant about the SL ad industry and why you’re frustrated. I accept that frustration may not exist tomorrow but surely when you’re involved in chats about whether you should retire or do something else it’s wrong to say your approach works for you.
Just my observations really.
“You’ve obviously been working with some pretty bad servicing people. Trust me there are better ones out there.”
Forgive me if I scoff, but I’ve worked in every single one of the top agencies in this country (bar one), with over seventeen years in the business, including over a decade at a senior level. If yoou want me to believe that somehow, in that time, I missed out on these servicing geniuses you’re working with, cool.
“Your way works for you, mine for me.”
Obviously it’s not working for you. You think clients are idiots who don’t understand advertising and creativity, you’re constantly frustrated, wishing you were a wedding planner, and regularly writing whiny posts bemoaning the state of the industry.
Is that what you consider things “working for you”?
I’m not saying I’m THE authority, but I think you need to realize how little you understand the industry that you’re constantly criticizing. You don’t even understand what your job entails. The discussion about the merits of servicing is beside the point — however good or bad they are, it is the creative person’s job to sell the ad. You can disagree with me as much as you like, but unless you can do it (and are doing it regularly), you will remain largely in the dark about your clients needs and as a result constantly frustrated. I bet you in a month or two you’ll be posting a similar post (as you do every other month) and we’ll find you still think your job’s just to create ads.
Oh yeah and
“You’ve obviously been working with some pretty bad servicing people”
You must be working with some pretty bad creative people if servicing can sell their ads better than them!
I think you should go back and read my post and then re-read your comments David. I haven’t complained every month about this job for one and I also said this post was just for me after a bad day. And you need to stop contradicting yourself, you first say you’re not the authority and then you preach to me. It’s not fair of you to tell me what to do. I have been around a fair amount of time as well and I must be doing something right to still be wanted by agency heads for the 2 different disciplines I’ve practiced during them. I don’t know it all either, but I know what’s good for me and the agency I work for right now.
Also, I never said I wanted to leave and become a wedding planner or anything else. I was recapping a conversation. It was said by someone else. I was siting the reasons why I’m here, not complaining and saying I wanted to leave. If you weren’t able to comprehend that, I think I better apologize for not making myself clearenough. But you do seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about what I haven’t said just to make your argument valid. There’s no point debating anything with you when you won’t stick to the points.
RD – I get what you’re saying, but I never said I was frustrated. I said the indutry was frustrating and I said that I had a frustrating meeting. Not every meeting I go for is peaches and cream. In fact I met with the same group of people today and had a fabulous meeting with them. I sold an entire campaign to them to the point where they actually applauded when we were done. They also apologized for frustrating us at the earlier meeting and said they would listen to our point of view in future. It was a good today. Not all of them are. Which was my original point. All I said was that I’m still here despite the bad days. And everyone has them.
Sorry to have rattled. Just hope this clarifies everything and ends this debate.
“I never said I was frustrated. I said the indutry was frustrating”
Oh so who is it frustrating FOR? Everyone but you) You’ve said (and I quote):
“this job is frustrating, no one understands us ”
“I work in one of the most frustrating industries around.”
“a very frustrating meeting”
And so now you double back and claim you are NOT frustrated? Lol. It’s a bit obvious who’s self-contradictory isn’t it?
“you first say you’re not the authority and then you preach to me”
Preach? I wasn’t aware that pointing out you are wrong is preaching, or that one had to be an authority to do so. I’m just a lot more experienced than you are and it’s pretty clear where you’re wrong.
“But you do seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about what I haven’t said just to make your argument valid”
Really? Like what? I’ve quoted you pretty exactly, I think.
“I sold an entire campaign to them to the point where they actually applauded when we were done”
Perhaps now you understand why creatives need to sell the ads.
Watched this developing with much interest. Natty as much as I hate to say this, Davy is right.
Simply because;
1. A bad servicing person can and does hide behind brilliant creative people who develop fantastic and strategic creative that any which way is easy to sell. During the glory days of 2000-2002, that is exactly what LDB did, we had every good creative person in Colombo working at Lintas.
2. A bad creative person can’t hide for long. They get exposed, by the fact that their ads don’t work in the market and not receiving recognition from the industry. Any creative proud of their work will always make it a point to be there to sell it.
And not bitch about it constantly. 🙂 x x
Advertising is a business. Servicing pimp the work, creative sell it. Either way we’re not in it for charity. As a servicing person do I admit I pimp the work? Bloody hell, yes! Proud of it too!
The couple of times I visited Bombay when the original team of Piyush, Sonal, Rajeev, Bobby and Shankar were kicking ass at O&M, Piyush took me around the agency. He actually did not even pause to introduce any client servicing to me. The creative were that confident they didn’t need anyone to sell their work.
David you’re not listening to a word I’m saying. I keep repeating myself and you keep taking it out of context. A creative should ideally sell their own work, yes. But its certainly not in their official job discription to do so. We sell ads because we have servicing people who don’t know how to or just plain CAN’T sell a damn thing. If we had better servicing we wouldn’t have to. I never said I didn’t sell. I do it all the time. But I also did it all the time as a servicing. So I honestly don’t get your point. And I don’t see the point in continuing this debate any further. Thanks. Its been interesting. Over and out.
die